Forum:Extended Cut vs Indocrination Theory
The Indocrination Theory seemed so great before the extended cut, now it looks false. Because of the indocrination theory i was okay with the original endings, but now that i think it is wrong the original endings look really stupid. what are your opinions?--HockeyLord46 23:10, June 26, 2012 (UTC) :IT was a fanfic designed as a coping mechanism. Now that we have a proper, satisfying and conclusive endings, it's irrelevant and unnecessary. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 23:30, June 26, 2012 (UTC) :I wouldn't have called it "so great" in the first place. Definitely the extended cut for me.--Zxjkl 00:03, June 27, 2012 (UTC) i liked the indocrination theory because it was cool to think bioware was doing something new and leaving clues in the game in order for the fans to figure out the ending --HockeyLord46 00:48, June 27, 2012 (UTC) I love the "Paragon" Extended Cut ending! :) Thank you so much EA/Bioware for providing me with one of my most memorable and favorite game endings ever! :) I'll be honest, I was extremely disappointed by the original "Paragon" ending because it left so many questions and I really didn't think that the "Extended Cut DLC" would even be worth it; but I was completely and totally wrong! :) I didn't even bother with the "Neutral" or "Renegade" endings because I always play as the "Ultimate heroine". Even in such games like Dragon Age Origins, Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic, Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords, and Jade Empire; I was always the "Ultimate Heroine". I prefer female characters over male characters! :) As a matter of fact, the main reason that I love "Smackdown vs Raw 2010" so much is because I get to play as "Mickie James" and "Melina Perez" :) The Crazy Tactician! 02:32, June 27, 2012 (UTC) IT was ridiculous for a variety of reasons, but the most prominent is that it would just make for stupid storytelling, even stupider than the endings prior to EC clarifications. Firstly, it implies that the story is incomplete, and that there is an underlying twist to the story that isn't concluded with closure - in the Sixth Sense, the story doesn't make us "invent" the twist that he's dead, it makes it obvious. That's a concluded twist, IT is not concluded in the game in any way. I acknowledge that there are clues that suggest it, but failing to conclude it would make for very poor story telling. I say worse than the endings prior to EC because EC clarifies that the endings presented were meant the way they were presented. Even if the EC clarified IT, it would have meant that BioWare sold us an incomplete game, once again even more so than the game as-is prior to EC. The story is complete with or without EC, EC just provides clarity to the endings, but the endings are otherwise the same as they were before, with a few holes filled in, likely just mistakes due to release pressure from Microsoft (not EA, EA did not influence the release date in any way, Microsoft did). IT was created by upset fans as, mentioned above, a coping mechanism, because some people take their games way too seriously and failed to approach the ideas in the ending with any perspective but the one that they decided explained how the endings were crap. Things like "everyone dies, no matter what, if it's not indoctrination" are fallacious conclusions that rely on very subjective reasoning. These people, to me, have very little experience with sci-fi story telling, and the ending concept as it was and how it paralleled an array of sci-fi concepts such as that presented in hypothesis form by the likes of Isaac Asimov and George Takei in which the unbridled heuristic AI subdues and subverts humanity's authority in order to protect humanity, even if it means wiping them out. Machine logic vs human logic is the basic underlying concept, and has been all along, from the moment you meet the rogue AI on the Citadel in ME1, EDI's story itself presenting an AI's struggle with adapting to human understanding and self-awareness, war and peace with the geth, and the Reaper's subversion of their original creators, even with their somewhat reluctant blessing, and to then run 'rogue' in the galaxy repeating the process all over again as a logic function deduced by the success of harvesting their own creators. It is brilliant, absolute genius as is - IT has no conclusion, no closure, and doesn't fit with the themes. Indoctrination itself is a function of the story, sure, but using it to subvert Shepard also means that the choices you are making as a player are never really yours anyway, and not just because the developers wrote them, but because if you were indoctrinated, if Shepard WERE indoctrinated, the options to go against the will of the Reapers would surely harm Shepard, as it does when Saren, and TIM, both reject the Reapers persuasion and kill themselves when Shepard's own power of persuasion joins the fray. IT, IMO, can GTFO. Martolives 03:30, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Egad!! As an Australian with a PS3 I've still got a week to wait before I get to see the EC. Ggrrrrrr....Infiltrator N7 03:49, June 27, 2012 (UTC) As an Australian with an Xbox 360, I've had no such issues ;) Have fun :p Martolives 03:55, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Gee thanks Marto Infiltrator N7 04:02, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Xbox - 1; Playstation - 0 Martolives 04:13, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Console/system/OS bias - 1; sarcasm - 1 It's a draw. To actually add to the debate, what about the fourth ending where Shepard refuses to make a choice, and then the Catalyst's voice temporarily changes to Harbinger's? DeltaEcho 06:13, June 27, 2012 (UTC) :Pretty sure that was put in specifically in order to allow IT speculation to continue. Bioware is never going to outright confirm or deny IT. It's much more fun this way :> Kestrella 20:04, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Honestly, the EC made the endings better, but they are still horrible. I know IT was fanfic, but it was a much better idea to end the game then what we are given. Turkeysocks 16:28, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Just finished the extended cut and I have to say I'm satisfied. I like many fans did immediately jump for cover behind the indoctrination theory after seeing the ending for the first time, but EC really clarifies things and most of all it gives me closure. I now know why certain things are and I no longer care all that much that the choices at the end are kind of a deus ex machina. I think that it was largely a matter of presentation. The way it was presented before EC made a lot of things look like random and magical mumbo jumbo and was almost too ambiguous for most people to accept as "the end"; but with the child AI now really explaining things, small tidbits that explain why the world isn't basically a mess despite Shepherds work, and the final images and funeral that really give closure, I can finally satisfyingly finish my many other Shepherds and give the series a well deserved rest rather than constantly trouble myself with the indoctrination theory. MrRexfire 03:12, June 28, 2012 (UTC) For me, indoctrination was THE space magic ever since ME1 was release (honestly, for someone who has an idea on how brainwashing works in the real world, the entire thing just makes me cringe since 2009). So from my perspective, replacing "WTF starchild space magic" with "WTF indoctrination space magic" is not really an improvement. EC, on the other hand, took a step in the right direction by removing the "WTF" part out of the "starchild space magic". It's just sad that Bioware will never remove the space magic entirely from the series. Raider1001 03:51, June 28, 2012 (UTC)